Does tavern brawler work with wild shape bg3

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Does tavern brawler work with wild shape bg3. Become an unkillable force of nature with our best Druid build guide in Baldur's Gate 3. Bestial Brawler: A virtually unkillable Circle of the Moon Druid that drops down concentration spells and switches Wild Shapes regularly in combat to suit the situation. Spore Rager: A Spore Druid/Barbarian multiclass that is tanky with Symbiotic …

Wild Shape is a special ability (Class Action) that Druids can use to transform into various beasts and gain new abilities and advantages in combat and exploration. In Baldur’s Gate 3, there are different beasts that druids can choose from, each with their own stats, skills, and actions. It is very important to remember that:. The Wild …

The easiest usecase I can think of that does not involve the use of potions is either the Throw Barb or the moondruid. The later will use it in wild shape form and get a really high hit and damage bonus due to a high strength score. Same with the throw Barb. The unarmed Strickes in wild shape form and the throw attacks both work with the feet.Related: Eldritch Knight Build Guide BG3 Screenshot by Pro Game Guides Best Stats for a Tavern Brawler Monk. Most Monk builds don't need to invest in Strength, since this class can scale all its Weapon Attacks and Unarmed Strikes from Dexterity.But in the case of the Tavern Brawler Monk, the feat doubles the Strength modifier of our … The wildshape mod on nexus atm is VERY good and fixes a lot of the flaws happening with moon druid. There's dire raven/cat ritual, new forms (including giant eagle, boar, werewolf etc), a fix/bandaid to primal strike as well as the ability to recast a concentration spell while in form, a few rebalances to keep the forms competitive instead of making every fight (owl)bear or bust until myrm forms. Tavern brawler adds your Str bonus to Attack and Damage twice. So more likely to hit and more damage. Got a +5 str bonus? Well thats +10 to hit and damage now…don’t forget if you’re higher you get advantage and if high enough you get extra falling damage from the weight. Also none of that is limited by uses per rest.The real value of Tavern Brawler isn't the damage, it's the accuracy. +20% to hit with 18 strength is better than the +4 (or +8 for Jugular strike) damage it adds. This is something you can't replicate with Myrmidons. that said, I agree that ultimately, building for the weapon-bearing wildshapes is still very strong.

The real value of Tavern Brawler isn't the damage, it's the accuracy. +20% to hit with 18 strength is better than the +4 (or +8 for Jugular strike) damage it adds. This is something you can't replicate with Myrmidons. that said, I agree that ultimately, building for the weapon-bearing wildshapes is still very strong.Passive features. Bugs. Applies to Wild Shape. Tavern Brawler is a passive feature obtainable by the Feat of the same name. Users of this feature excel at improvised and …Hey, I've been running a "Top Rope" moon druid in Honour Mode, and just picked Tavern Brawler because I've read that it works while in Wild Shape (bear, in this instance). The weird thing is, it works but only on the attack roll. This is what the log tells me : Attack Roll : 3 (1d20) + 2 (Proficiency) + 4 (Taven Brawler) + 4 (Strength Modifier) …SaurianDruid. addict. Joined: Oct 2020. Half of Tavern Brawler works for animal forms. They get the To Hit bonus but not the Damage bonus. Still absolutely worth taking though, as it's more or less the only way to boost Wildshape performance. It doesn't work with the elemental forms that use weapons.DolphinOrDonkey. •. It is bugged. Sentinel reaction works until you wildshape, and then breaks forever, even in normal human form. Reply. I made a circle of the moon druid and just lvl 4 and picked Sentinel as my first feat and was wondering if it worked wile shapeshifted or I wasted a….Feats: Tavern Brawler gives you double str mod for your to hit bonus and to damage, and can even double dip on unarmed forms that deal multiple instances of damage such as the panther and sabertooth jugular strike, dino, and earth myrmidon primary attacks.

It didn't mention if wild shape attacks were considered unarmed strikes, especially in regards to the Tavern Brawler feat's last bullet, which enables a grapple …Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns. It works for wild shape attack rolls. If I wild shape into a bear for example do I get an extra +4 to my melee attacks or should I treat tavern brawler as monk exclusive? Natural weapons….Yes, with a caveat. The Tavern Brawler feat almost certainly still applies to you while wild shaped into a bear, because while wild shaped, "you retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so." While there is some wiggle room here, it would be pretty ...Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns. It works for wild shape attack rolls. If I wild shape into a bear for example do I get an extra +4 to my melee attacks or should I treat tavern brawler as …Dual wield feat adds +1 AC to your wildshape forms. Now you are nearly as strong as an owlbear to carry corpses for a Spore druid or necromancer. Wizards/sorcs can benefit from dual wield feat for staff/club action as well. Or just use the club as many staves besides Melf one provide not great bonuses early.2. Feats. I have a huge confusion here. I tried Sentinel but it didn't seem to work. Most likely, because it's used "to make a weapon attack" and Wild Shape attacks are considered to be unarmed. However, when I changed to Tavern Brawler I got mixed results. According to its description, "your Strength Modifier is added twice to the damage and ...

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As this is a versatile weapon it should (it doesn't) give you the option to wield it one handed and unarmed with your offhand. It does not and it's a bit disappointing. Hope they patch that so you can get an extra unarmed attack. Monks …Druids are some of the fiercest warriors in BG3, with plenty of options to mess up a frontline. From a spellcasting build to a Wild Shape one, Druids builds have some of the best uses for feats in ...Best BG3 Druid subclasses, ranked. Welcome to the jungle. Become the king of it. Circle of the Spores. Halo of Spores Symbiotic Entity. Moon Druid BG3 Wild Shape bonus action spend spell slots to ...1 - none as far as I’ve tested it treats you as an actual bear owlbear etc. 2 - tavern brawler, tough, mobile savage attacker (think feats like this and it probably works unless it’s bugged like spell sniper) 3 - no usually your concentration will break …

The attack bonus work in all difficulty; the damage bonus didn't work in honor mode before patch 6 (haven't tested it since, but nothing was in the patch note) but works in tactician and lower (for wild shape with unarmed attack) Does the “your strength modifier is added twice to the damage and attack rolls” aspect of the Tavern Brawler ... Does tavern brawler now work with earth myrmidon wild shape? Has anyone been able to test this since patch 5 dropped? In honor mode it doesn’t work with any of the shapes. Speaking of the damage portion btw the hit portion works fine. Apparently it works correctly in other modes but I haven’t checked. Tavern brawler correctly adds your strength modifier in wild shape a second time to your damage and attack rolls, except for in honor mode where it’s only added a second time to attack rolls. There’s an inconsistency between difficulty levels if you’re looking at the damage while you’re in honor mode. 1. Reply. true. It shouldn't work becuase it should be an either / or. Either your weapons use CHA, then youmiss out on the STR bonuses from Tavern Brawler. Or it's using STR and you get the Tavern Brawler Bonuses. But I haven't tested and strangers things have happened in this 5e Twighlight Zone of BG3.Tavern Brawler is absolutely busted. A hidden +1 to Strength on top of these insane effects is just way too much for a singular feat. This essentially turns 20 Strength into 30 Strength for unarmed, improvised, and thrown weapons, which results in an absurd chance to hit as well as bonkers damage.Originally posted by Xan: It benefits +attack (i.e., accuracy) with unarmed strikes while in wild shape, but it doesn't affect damage. It's still a must-take for any moon druid tbh. That's what i need their accuracy is atrocious, what i'm asking is if it works i've heard that patch 5 broke it and don't know if they fixed it again. #2.Technically, you are not unarmed. You are an animal. Your attacks are counted as "natural weapons" not "unarmed attacks". This is how it works in 5e as well. 3. funkyfritter. • 8 mo. ago. First thing to try is to hit something and confirm via the combat log that it really isn't working. A lot of tooltips don't show tavern brawler bonuses ...Related: Eldritch Knight Build Guide BG3 Screenshot by Pro Game Guides Best Stats for a Tavern Brawler Monk. Most Monk builds don't need to invest in Strength, since this class can scale all its Weapon Attacks and Unarmed Strikes from Dexterity.But in the case of the Tavern Brawler Monk, the feat doubles the Strength modifier of our …Apr 2, 2016 · It didn't mention if wild shape attacks were considered unarmed strikes, especially in regards to the Tavern Brawler feat's last bullet, which enables a grapple attempt after hitting with an unarmed strike. It doesn't say in the PHB under the Druid section. In the MM, it says that a beast's attacks are Melee Weapon Attacks.

Aug 6, 2023 · You cannot Wild Shape and Rage. You can Rage and then Wild Shape, but it's not really worth it. First, You cannot Rage and then Wild Shape as a bonus action. You have to Wild Shape on your next turn. Then, you lose your Unarmored Bonus. You still keep the resistances. But like with all Rage, if you do not attack or are attack every round you lose Rage and you have to cancel Wild Shape to ...

With such a long off-season, how do NCAA players keep in shape throughout the long winter? These guys can’t afford to pile on the pounds over the holiday season and then hope to wo...Druid Wild Shapes & Tavern Brawler in Honour Mode. Patch 5 released on November 30 2023 states "Wild Shapes that do not have weapons will now benefit from having the Tavern Brawler feat." This bug fix fails to work in the Honour game mode (both damage & attack rolls should get benefits). Please fix this bug as soon as possible. Showing 1 - 1 of ...Most wikis and past discussions are pre-patch 5. I know they updated a lot of stuff about Wildshape, like Tavern Brawler now working properly. I'd still like to know my gear plan will actually work before I do anything though. Well, there's a hood and armour that work in wildshape in act 3, but other than that I don't think there's much (or at ...the reaction does not work: Tavern Brawler: hit-hit +DMG does not work: War Caster: ADV conc: ADV conc: ADV conc: Shocking Grasp does not work: All other feats - or useless ... How to Use Wild Shape Action in BG3. The different Wild Shape transformations have different Actions and Skills along with different spreads in Abilities. …When you need an alternative to shopping for used canopies for sale, a custom tent canopy is an option that lets you display a canopy with your company message. Custom-made canopie...Last but not least, Tavern Brawler is the prime example of a feat perfect for Wild Shape-focused Druids. The feat allows you to add your strength modifier a second time when you make an unarmed attack. This applies to Wild Shape claws, bites, etc. The great thing here is you don't even need to invest in your Strength stat.The quarterstaff is better (1d8) than base unarmed attacks (1d6) at this point. It's meant to boost the monk's bonus actions. It's objectively better than being unarmed unless you take tavern brawler (which, in fairness, most bg3 monks do) until level 6 when your unarmed attacks get extra elemental damage added.Thanks to a “buff” Patch Five, Tavern Brawler now works effectively on a Wild Shaping Druid—no longer is it just for Monks or Barbarians. That’s fantastic news since it’s probably the ...It was quite a bit of fun. I'm planning a barbarian/rogue/fighter build with tavern brawler. 5 levels of Barbarian for extra attack. 3 levels of rogue for thief subclass for the extra bonus action. 3 levels of fighter. Have not decided which subclass yet and may go 2 levels. The last level will probably go level 4 rogue for the ASI.

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Archery only works on darts in 5e, though dunno about BG3. Technically, before a Sage Advice that mentioned it a lot of GMs also ruled that throwing weapons wouldn't work with Dueling since at the time the creature took the hit the weapon was no longer in your hand. So, unsure on BG3 there too.Have you ever wondered how streaming platforms like Prime Video curate personalized recommendations on their home pages? Behind the scenes, there is a sophisticated algorithm at wo...Tavern Brawler increases a Druid's Strength or Constitution score by one, but no higher than 20. ... There are a lot of Druid Wild Shapes in BG3, but not all of them are powerful or useful ...You need Strength, Dex (for defense), Con, and Wisdom. In BG3 apparently martial arts die, the martial arts bonus attack and flurry of blows work with armor. You can just get medium armor from somewhere and keep DEX at 14. Wisdom also isn't as needed then either, depending on which features you'll be using regularly.In recent years, the concept of traditional office spaces has been rapidly evolving. With advancements in technology and shifting work dynamics, businesses are embracing new ways o...Tozobi Aug 2, 2023 @ 2:42pm. At a guess: Monks have the right to bear arms, but cannot arm bears. In other words, you can get the AC bonuses (generally), but not the fisticuff related monk bonuses. Still, a pugilist bear sounds too hilarious to pass up, it is right up Larian's alley.This hybrid monk/druid is best suited for NON circle of the Moon druids because you would either lose out on the most powerful wildshapes (8 druid / 4 monk), or you lose out on a feat (10-11 druid / 2-1 monk). Other circles should be able to draw out way more benefits from this hybridazation. 6. einsteinjunior91. • 9 mo. ago.Also any shape that does have a weapon does not work with Tavern Brawler for example 3 of the elemental Wild Shapes use weapons that being Fire, Water and Air Myrmidon but Earth Myrmidon still just uses it's fists so it still works with Tavern Brawler and its probably the strongest elemental shape anyways because of its really high damage and ...DolphinOrDonkey. •. It is bugged. Sentinel reaction works until you wildshape, and then breaks forever, even in normal human form. Reply. I made a circle of the moon druid and just lvl 4 and picked Sentinel as my first feat and was wondering if it worked wile shapeshifted or I wasted a….Dual wield feat adds +1 AC to your wildshape forms. Now you are nearly as strong as an owlbear to carry corpses for a Spore druid or necromancer. Wizards/sorcs can benefit from dual wield feat for staff/club action as well. Or just use the club as many staves besides Melf one provide not great bonuses early.Basically nothing works in wildshape like it should in 5e. only thing ive found to somewhat work is unarmored defense but you have to not be wearing armor when you wildshape. and the monks level 2 fleet foot. Funnily enough Tavern brawler works Stupidly well as its currently giving you another to hit bonus equal to your shapes str mod.SaurianDruid. addict. Joined: Oct 2020. Half of Tavern Brawler works for animal forms. They get the To Hit bonus but not the Damage bonus. Still absolutely worth taking though, as it's more or less the only way to boost Wildshape performance. It doesn't work with the elemental forms that use weapons. ….

Leveling is painfully simple otherwise - either go full caster stats or dex/15 con/16 wis, pick up Tavern Brawler CON (+1 doesn't apply to wildshape), Resilient:Dex (off the top of my head only way to get +1 dex but if there's another half feat that works for shapeshifts, that's fine too) and then decide if you want to go straight 12 druid and ...Malware42_the_second. •. Wild shape druid attacks only count as weapons if the shape is wielding a weapon, like the fire mymidon. All others, like bear, owlbear and dilophosaurus, are considered unarmed damage. They won't use the savage attacks racial power or the savage attacker feat, but they will benefit from the tavern brawler feat.Looking for a meaningful gift for someone who’s obsessed with painting? We’ve got you covered with products to add to their palette of essential materials for getting down to work....BG3 Savage Attacker Information. ... After all, Tavern Brawler no longer adds accuracy to their attack roles, which means the game no longer seems to recognize Fire, Water, and Air as unarmed attacks, which means they must now be registered as weapon attacks. ... does this work in Wild Shape froms with a druid? Reply Replies (3) …Wild Shape. So honestly most of what they showed off in the druid section was wild shape (poor circle of the land druids) and I am mostly pleased with the forms we have so far. I do still have some questions about how this is going to work though. So far there are seven (eight) forms available, they did imply there would be more in the final ...A community all about Baldur's Gate III, the role-playing video game by Larian Studios. BG3 is the third main game in the Baldur's Gate series. Baldur's Gate III is based on a modified version of the Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition (D&D 5e) tabletop RPG ruleset. Gather your party and venture forth!Tavern Brawler Accustomed to rough-and-tumble fighting using whatever weapons happen to be at hand, you gain the following benefits: Increase your Strength or Constitution score by 1, to a maximum of. Brawler. Compendium - Sources->Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything. , Resilient, Shield Master, Tavern Brawler, Tough When bottles start breaking ...Also any shape that does have a weapon does not work with Tavern Brawler for example 3 of the elemental Wild Shapes use weapons that being Fire, Water and Air Myrmidon but Earth Myrmidon still just uses it's fists so it still works with Tavern Brawler and its probably the strongest elemental shape anyways because of its really high damage and ... Does tavern brawler work with wild shape bg3, It looks like this mod isn't compatible with the changes made in Patch 5 to make tavern brawler work with wild shape, because the change they made was to Tavern Brawler, rather than wildshape. They... literally hardcoded it. This is the new text of the feat in the game files: new entry "TavernBrawler" type "PassiveData", For Moon Druid, pretty good. Though the main thing imo isn't damage, it's the extra HP. The damage output is fine too, just won't ever be as accurate or high damage as a martial due to lack of equipment for Wildshape. But 3 attacks and unique actions for each form is good, and Tavern Brawler works for Wildshape too, so it's actually better., The quarterstaff is better (1d8) than base unarmed attacks (1d6) at this point. It's meant to boost the monk's bonus actions. It's objectively better than being unarmed unless you take tavern brawler (which, in fairness, most bg3 monks do) until level 6 when your unarmed attacks get extra elemental damage added., Oct 12, 2023 · Vanilla Tavern Brawler has bonus damage for Wild Shapes, but allows Throw to deal absurd damage; Honour mode Tavern Brawler does not grant damage for Wild Shape and does not give Throw an extra damage event; With this mod it is the same in normal and honour mode, dealing full damage for Wild Shapes and not making Throw broken , As this is a versatile weapon it should (it doesn't) give you the option to wield it one handed and unarmed with your offhand. It does not and it's a bit disappointing. Hope they patch that so you can get an extra unarmed attack. Monks …, Whether they’re based in Sudan or Michigan, Arab American artists have shaped the world of fine art in meaningful ways, bringing perspectives and lived experiences to their work th..., Tawern brawler are for soft humanoids that normally only do 1+ strength unarmed (outside of monk) So no, it shouldn't work for animals / wildshape. Oh wait, I actually just figured it out on my own. If you look on the combat log you can see the breakdowns for attacks, and lo and behold, tavern brawler adds the attack roll but not …, Wild Shape: Bear has the following stats in the character sheet after transformation. HP: 30, AC: 12, Speed: 11m, Initiative:+0, Strength: 19, Dexterity: 10, and Constitution: 16 . How to unlock Wild Shape: Bear. Wild Shape Action can be unlocked by the following classes: Circle of the Moon at level 2 . How to use Wild Shape: Bear in BG3, Yes, with a caveat. The Tavern Brawler feat almost certainly still applies to you while wild shaped into a bear, because while wild shaped, "you retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so." While there is some wiggle room here, it would be pretty ..., What feats work in Wild shape? New Player Question. HI there, I'm just curious because i heard that wild shape is quite buggy when it comes to feats so was wondering if there is a list or if anyone knows what works and what does not work in terms of abilities/feats. 1., Aug 5, 2023 · Attack roll: 16 (1d20) +2 (prof) +4 (Tavern Brawler) + 4 (strength modifier) = 26. So yes, it appears to be in there and doing oak fathers good work. Point of clarity though, as this hit my face like a door on a windy day, its for attack rolls (like it says, duh) not damage rolls. So its the hit chance, not the dmg output. , It only works with strength. Weirdly, in BG3 the strongest monk build is a heavy armor strength based monk. The only thing you lose is the increased movement speed, all your other monk stuff works as normal. Since people already gave you the answer (no) I'll just add that there is a mod that converts tavern brawler to finesse (uses whatever is ..., Easy peasy, re-spec to 17STR, take tavern brawler to 18, ASI to 20STR, returning Pike and Ring of flinging right away, sneak down to Underdark for kushigo gloves, build is up and ready in a pinch. Laezel will actually work really well since you get gith jump and free misty step to get the high ground and pick up that bonus crushing damage+prone., Does tavern brawler now work with earth myrmidon wild shape? Has anyone been able to test this since patch 5 dropped? In honor mode it doesn’t work with any of the shapes. Speaking of the damage portion btw the hit portion works fine. Apparently it works correctly in other modes but I haven’t checked. , Jan 23, 2024 · Druid Wild Shapes & Tavern Brawler in Honour Mode. Patch 5 released on November 30 2023 states "Wild Shapes that do not have weapons will now benefit from having the Tavern Brawler feat." This bug fix fails to work in the Honour game mode (both damage & attack rolls should get benefits). Please fix this bug as soon as possible. Showing 1 - 1 of ... , Feats. I have a huge confusion here. I tried Sentinel but it didn't seem to work. Most likely, because it's used "to make a weapon attack" and Wild Shape attacks are considered to be unarmed. However, when I changed to Tavern Brawler I got mixed results., Observant, an out-of-combat utility feat but being able to turn into an eagle and learn what people say 1.5 km away is nice (or turn into an insect to become the ultimate spy). Savage Attacker do work with Wild Shape because most beast attack are clearly marked as melee weapon attack. It's indeed a good choice with the high damage dice of beasts., The Tavern Brawler feat (PHB, p. 170) states that: You are proficient with improvised weapons and unarmed strikes. And the rules for improvised weapons (PHB, p. 147-148) state: In many cases, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club., Last but not least, Tavern Brawler is the prime example of a feat perfect for Wild Shape-focused Druids. The feat allows you to add your strength modifier a second time when you make an unarmed attack. This applies to Wild Shape claws, bites, etc. The great thing here is you don't even need to invest in your Strength stat., Itemization wise, aside from the few Wildshape specific ones, focus on items that will boost your out of combat skills. The stuff you need to do in your caster form, social or sleight of hand stuff. Probably your most useful spell will be Enhance Attribute, because it will help you brute force a lot of skill checks., Hey, I've been running a "Top Rope" moon druid in Honour Mode, and just picked Tavern Brawler because I've read that it works while in Wild Shape (bear, in this instance). The weird thing is, it works but only on the attack roll. This is what the log tells me : Attack Roll : 3 (1d20) + 2 (Proficiency) + 4 (Taven Brawler) + 4 (Strength Modifier) …, Tozobi Aug 2, 2023 @ 2:42pm. At a guess: Monks have the right to bear arms, but cannot arm bears. In other words, you can get the AC bonuses (generally), but not the fisticuff related monk bonuses. Still, a pugilist bear sounds too …, Pick second level onwards monk, ditch the weapon but keep the shield. Wear the heaviest armor that you can. What you lose in unarmored movement you'll have to make up with your bonus monk "dash then free jump" move. Pick Tavern brawler as first feat. Pick Athlete as second feat for that sweet 50% jump increase., sanchothe7th. • 5 mo. ago. This is likely a bug, as this is how tavern brawler worked with moon druid pre-patch 5. Its likely they were working on honour mode as a kind of mod and forgot to port the patch 5 changes to druid attacks into it. Please report the bug to larian., There are also feats that give your shapes +1 stats like Durable and Resilient for example. Dual Wielder will give you a bonus AC if you are dual wielding before you wild shape. But most equipment is wishy washy you will probably have to just settle for the act 3 Moonbasking armor and shapeshifter hat. 1. , Wild Shape now works with Tavern Brawler upvotes ... BG3 is the third main game in the Baldur's Gate series. Baldur's Gate III is based on a modified version of the Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition (D&D 5e) tabletop RPG ruleset. Gather your party and venture forth!, Druid: RAW, a beast's attacks aren't "unarmed strikes" and therefore wouldn't work with Wild Shape. Fighter: If you wanted to build your entire playstyle …, I planned to play a Moon druid Wildshaping with the feat tavern Brawler for my first Honor run. But when I reached the level 4 and try the interaction, it seems that the feat buff only …, On NPR’s Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast, writer Lauren Michele Jackson expanded upon her Vulture essay, which illustrated how 2020’s uptick in anti-racist reading lists overshadowe..., A community all about Baldur's Gate III, the role-playing video game by Larian Studios. BG3 is the third main game in the Baldur's Gate series. Baldur's Gate III is based on a modified version of the Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition (D&D 5e) tabletop RPG ruleset. Gather your party and venture forth! , Bay to Breakers is fun, wild and exciting running event. Visit HowStuffWorks to learn all about Bay to Breakers. Advertisement It's a breezy May morning on Howard Street in San Fra..., I have been looking online and it seems every video I find has a different answer on this whole how does Tavern Brawler work with a transformed Druid. Some say it doesn't work at all, Some say it's bugged and only effects the accuracy, so if anyone has used this combo before let me know. I know it used to only effect accuracy but I believe in ..., Hi Tavs. I’m seeing a lot of cool builds start to pop up with strength based monks using tavern brawler to buff their unarmed damage. Does that work with the fangs of the fire snake ability since it uses unarmed damage? I really like the 4 elements for flavor (and because Larian made it not trash). Also does anybody have good links to 4 ...